Cynthia McKinney Tells It Like It Is: A Conversation with Gary S. Corseri

I grew up in New York City, and have traveled and lived in different parts of the world, including about 18 years in the “Peachtree State” of Georgia.  For almost as long as I lived there, I’d heard of Cynthia McKinney—the first African-American woman to represent Georgia in the U.S. House of Representatives.  To be honest, a great deal that I heard from the Mainstream Media was negative, portraying Ms. McKinney as a crazy shrew, an over-the-top black radical who questioned the official story of 9/11; opposed the US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan — and, recently, in Libya; opposed Israeli policies, and supported Palestinian demands for statehood.  

About three years ago, I heard McKinney speak at a conference at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C.  Instead of a crazy firebrand, I heard an intelligent, measured, if passionate, presentation of why she challenged US war policies. 

When I returned to Georgia, I wrote a friend in the UK about my hope to interview McKinney.  My friend related a story about the “Dignity” ship, carrying food and medical supplies to Palestine, in 2008, rammed by the Israeli Navy in international waters.  McKinney was on that ship, and when it was rammed, she turned to my friend’s brother and said, “David, I can’t swim.”  Nothing I had ever heard about McKinney revealed her character more succinctly.  This is a woman willing to put her life on the line in support of her principles.  Missing from the Mainstream Media depictions were the human and humane aspects of her character.  The MSM has too-often portrayed the struggle for justice as irrational, or even fanatical.  I needed to know more.

(And, for a sense of the very sharp way McKinney performed her duties—and the People’s business– in the US House of Representatives, while on the Budget Committee, I recommend checking out this 9-minute 2006 YouTube video of her grilling Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, General Meyers, and Tina Jonas about 9/11 and related matters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px1t1-a9uxk&feature=player_embedded)

CM: … How is it that the people of the United States can invest trillions of dollars in the military and Intelligence infrastructure—and it failed four times in one day? … That singular question has never been answered.

CM: Yeah. … the only official briefing on that subject held on Capitol Hill, period!

GC: Well… The Atlanta-Journal Constitution editorialized that.

CM: Oh… you mean, The Urinal-in-Constipation!

CM: You call them legitimate?  I won’t even legitimize them with a response!  Whatever they say is bogus!  You got another quote from somebody?

CM: I’m not going to respond to anything they say!

CM: Oh, I can’t even remember back that far…, but, I think the record now reflects what Bush knew… and I’m sure that part of what I said is that I would never try to go inside George Bush’s brain to see what’s there!

CM: We know where they were . . .  The question is, Why didn’t they follow standard operating procedures?

CM: Look … I spent last September ’11 in the home of a woman who is afflicted with cancer… because she lived near the World Trade center.  And all of that dust came into her apartment… and she had to clean it up. She will never figure into any of the statistics about who has been affected—her situation will never count… but it counts to me, and to all of the other members of the 911 Truth Community.

CM: That was the number that was assigned to me by the Israeli prison system when—on  my second attempt to get into Gaza—I was kidnapped on the high seas in international waters and taken against my will to Israel and put in prison. … David Halpin, the UK physician, and I sat next to each other because the volunteers—the activists that were on the boat—were international and spoke different languages… so I sat next to the English doctor… and he railed, he railed, he railed as the warship came close to us…, then backed off…, then approached us again—very quickly and very quietly — in this cat-and-mouse game. … And he cursed my government… because it was with the assistance of the United States that those engines had been provided to the Israeli military so that they could do what they were doing to us.

CM: No. … In fact, I do a lot of apologizing!  I can say this: In the struggle for human rights, I consider prisoner # 88794 a badge of honor that I’ve acquired as a result of what I have chosen to do to assert my own right to recognize the human rights and the dignity of other people. …

CM:  I voluntarily went to Libya. Any time the War Machine rolls—I have to oppose that!  Libya was a special case, a personal case because I had just been to Libya. I had taken a delegation of independent journalists to go to Libya, because I did not believe the explanation that was given to the public about the necessity to bomb Tripoli and other cities in Libya. … While we were there… we experienced what “shock and awe” is all about.  The individual who went to the UN with allegations of thousands dying at the hands of Colonel Gaddhafi and the Libyan government—when he was pressed to substantiate his claims, he couldn’t.

CM: It’s also a situation similar to that of the Cuban-American community congregated down in Miami… right after the Cuban Revolution in 1959 where we had a community of expatriates who were willing to unleash terror on their own country… and, a similar thing was happening in Libya… with the United States providing financing for these individuals willing to lie about what was happening.

This information is available on the Internet.  Julien Teil interviewed the individual making these false claims at the UN.  The interview can be found at www.laguerrehumanitaire.fr … It’s on YouTube, as well.  Julien also interviewed the woman at Amnesty International who had claimed that “African mercenaries” were supporting Gaddafi’s repression of his people; but, when challenged—and this was all after the devastation—she admitted that it was “just a rumor.”

My colleague, David Josue, and I had been in Libya to attend a conference for Africans on the continent as well as Africans in the diaspora.  And what the Jamahariya government had devised was a call to Africans in the diaspora who were unhappy with their treatment at the hands of white Americans or white Europeans, etc.—to come back home to Africa and to help Libya rebuild Africa and rebuild itself.

… That was the purpose of this conference I had attended … And it was at that conference that the Jamahiriya committed 90 billion dollars to help in the creation of The United States of Africa … That would also include a million-person army for continental Africa to drive back the attempts of AFRICOM and others to occupy the African continent … That was in addition to the proposal for a gold-backed dinar for all of Africa … The daughter of Kwame Nkruma was at that conference; the son of Patrice Lumumba was at that conference… the grandson of Malcom X was there … The atmosphere was electric with the idea of the re-building, the re-kindling of the movement that these African leaders—or their forebears—represented.  Well… that was all put to an end by NATO’s bombing.

The attack on Libya was an attack on Africa!  It was an attack on my aspirations as a person of African descent to have a free and independent Africa.  That’s what was attacked!

CM: Our “democracy” is neither democratic nor representative!  But… let’s start with what the Jamahiriya means to me. The only stake that I have is that I want to see a free and independent Africa…, but the type of government that Libya has should be determined by the Libyan people.  I don’t really have a say in that … And I shouldn’t have a say in how they dispose of their governmental form … Therefore, it’s inexcusable to ask another country to bomb your fellow countrymen if you really care about your country!

The Jamahiriya — which had the highest living standard in all of Africa — had free education up through the Ph.D. level; free health care, free utilities, subsidized—and free, if you were poor—housing, subsidized food, subsidized transportation, including car expenses… and so, the necessities of life were paid for by the direct democracy known as the Jamahiriya. 

Can you imagine…?  I have a cousin who is $120,000 in student debt in the U.S.  She has a Masters degree as a social worker.  Now, if she had been born in Libya—she would have no such debt … I went to a university outside of Tripoli and asked the students about their tuition fees… and the word didn’t translate.  I asked them about what they paid to attend the university … It was $9.00 per year!

When I was in Congress, one of my allies was Senator Mike Gravel… and Senator Gravel’s initiative is about “direct democracy.”  He had been to Libya… and he supported the establishment of the revolutionary committees, which was the way Libyans determined how they would use their oil money.

A question under discussion when I attended the conference there was whether the subsidies for gas/petrol or the subsidies for education would be increased!  (In the US, under “austerity” measures, people are being told which programs will be eliminated or eviscerated; in Libya, they were voting on which programs would get increased subsidization!)

What I have said publicly is that what we have been seeing is the Israelization of US policy.  You know… the only reason the Libyans took any interest in me was that someone in Libya, looking at their television, saw me having all these problems trying to get into Gaza… and they said, “We want to know her!”  That’s why I was invited to attend this conference on THE GREEN BOOK—to explain what I was trying to do in Gaza.  And what I observed in Libya was the same kind of collective punishment I observed in Gaza.  People supporting their own governments were being punished by outsiders who opposed those governments!

This is the kind of thing that happens in the absence of ethics in journalism. … Because… we don’t have journalists in the Mainstream—I call it the Special Interests Press–to educate and provide information to citizens so they can make a critical analysis of issues.  That is absent … We need ethics in scholarship; ethics in journalism, as well …The journalistic community has gone along with the kind of death and destruction that has been visited upon Libya… and so many other countries.  We’re setting up drone bases all over Africa… and people here don’t even know… don’t begin to understand….

CM:  That’s not an  allegation—that’s a fact!  I was informed that I had been targeted by the pro-Israel lobby by the media. … I read about it in the papers! … and the evidence is readily available. …So, the fact of being targeted by the number-one special interest lobby in the United States means that there is an engagement in every aspect of one’s political life.…

CM:  Well, I’m, ah… I’m no more anti-Semitic than than any of the anti-Zionist Jews who I work with on an almost-daily basis to correct US policy.  And, I would suggest that the real Semites are the Palestinians.  And, therefore, I would suggest that I’m not anti-Semitic, but that there are people who are anti-human rights, and there are some people who are anti-peace, and there are some people who are pro-war… and no matter who they are, I will always be against that… because I … You see what my… my button says?

(She points to a button she is wearing on her blouse).  My button says, “I’m a peace-keeper”  And, this one says, “War is a crime!” 

CM:  When I was in Congress, I organized a Press Conference with organizations like “Jewish Workers for Peace,” “Not in My Name, Women in Black (www.womeninblack.org)—we had about ten organizations at that press conference… and it was fantastic….

That night, the Atlanta news criticized me for associating with “fringe Jewish elements”!  Now… what’s a “fringe Jewish element”?  It was the Anti-Defamation League that was casting this aspersion!

Now, the Anti-Defamation League that I knew about is supposed to be a Civil Rights organization.  But… the Anti-Defamation League, in practice, filed an amicus brief with five white racists to dismantle the district—my district! — that provided an opportunity for black people in the black belt of Georgia to have representation!  Those are the people who sent me to Congress to represent them! … I stand on their shoulders, and I did my darnedest to represent them—and I was rewarded by the Anti-Defamation League filing an amicus brief and a lawsuit to dismantle that district and take representation away from those poor, black people.

About that election with Majette, your father, a former state representative in Georgia, stated that “Jews have bought everybody… And then he spelled it, “J-E-W-S. …”  Now…, personally, I always make a distinction between Jews and Zionists—and you just did. … I try to distinguish between people who follow a religious tradition and those who assert a political-nationalist ideology. … And, ah…  I think writers like Gilad Atzmon, for example, have been very clear about making that distinction in his recent work like The Wandering Who?. …

CM: I haven’t read that, but—

CM: Gilad is coming to Atlanta this month—

CM: Yes. … You must come—

CM: Well… let me tell you something. … I want to talk to you about. … The first time my daddy got into trouble was when he said, “racist Jew.”  And, I had a Jewish friend who was trying to smooth things over.  And I asked her, “Is Jew a bad word?  I didn’t know “Zionist”—I didn’t even know that word at the time… because… here’s the thing: the Anti-Defamation League says that they represent all Jews—that’s what they tell us.  AIPAC, also.  So… I didn’t know that there was a word called “Zionist” until I became involved with the Betrand Russell tribunal on Palestine. … And there was a famous Jewish lawyer who was one of the leaders in that tribunal, and I went to him and I said, “Daniel, how does your family feel about your being in this tribunal?” and he said, “My family are anti-Zionist Jews.”  And I said, “I don’t know what that is!”  I was 50-something years old, and I’d never heard the language!  Now, of course, I’ve been exposed… and I’m more sensitive that there’s a difference. … Now… I have marvelous Jewish friends… and I understand the difference between Judaism and Zionism.  Whoever prays to whatever God is fine with me…, but, a political ideology is quite different  … I know I have a lot to learn when it comes to Zionism and Judaism. … I’m not very religious… but I am spiritual… and I’m very interested in people’s beliefs… but, I’m more interested in the way people behave. … So, I would always say, judge me on what I do more than on what I say. … And, I acknowledge that I can be wrong about what I say. … And, my father can be wrong about what he said. …

CM: Um-ha. …

CM: They can. …

GC: Isn’t it possible to conceive a party that speaks for the majority of Independents, that unites Independents?  The 4 principles that united Independents then are still very much with us—and in many ways the dangers are greater—the possibility of war with Iran looms larger now, and there’s the National Defense Authorization Act, as well as the other intrusions on privacy and civil liberties.  More Americans classify themselves as “Independents” than as Republicans or Democrats.  How can the varied strands of Independents work together to defeat the Republicrats?

CM: The answer to that question goes to the core of the kind of change we hope to initiate on a policy basis. … So… how do we do that?  I think the first thing is that we have to be willing to talk to each other.  We have to recognize that there’s commonality despite difference.  So… the thing that allowed Nader and me and Paul to come together is that we were at least willing to see areas of commonality.  We should be able to do that across the political spectrum.  And, in fact, when I was in the Congress, I was forced to do that. … As a Southerner, I—and as someone who had to get votes—not lose them—I needed the endorsement of a leader in the community… and he was a Klan member… and I had no choice. … I asked him for his support—and I got it!  (After I sat there for over an hour and he described to me how “confused” the people were because of the way they judged the Ku Klux Klan to be racist!)

And… I sat there and found a place where we could have a meeting of the minds—and I did it!

CM: Well, one thing is that the Libertarians and the Greens could join forces—kind of a united front.  So… I’d like to see if those kinds of talks could get anywhere.

CM: That was your friend, huh?

CM: Yeah… we do. …

CM: Every time there’s a vote, it gets more outrageous, doesn’t it?

CM: Well… we’re not there yet, so I don’t have to think about it at all!

CM: Let me put it this way. … We do have overlapping constituencies. … So… it would be wonderful if the two circles could expand beyond their points of intersection. …And I’m not just talking about Paul. … I’m talking about people on the Left in general. … Because, there’s no more Left and Right.  It’s only Right and Wrong now… and the old “Right” is Wrong… and the old “Left” needs to be more Right… does that make sense?

CM: Yeah, because the Left is being co-opted. … So, the Left needs to be more Left!

CM: And the militia!  You know… I have to deal with the militia, too.  I’m from Georgia, right?  They participate in the political system—to the extent that they do—and somebody needs to be talking to’em… because, ultimately, they’re a part of the 99%. … And that’s the gift that the Occupy Movement has given to us—they’ve given us a way to self-identify.  Now we know—it’s not about color, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation—all of those things.  At the end of the day—if you’re part of the 99%, you’re part of us… and if you’re part of the 1%–you’re part of them!

CM:  Okay. …

CM: Do I get discouraged?  Yes!  What do I do when I’m discouraged? … find other people who are not yet discouraged!

Who are my heroes?  Everybody!  Everybody who has a tough row to hoe in life!  Those are my heroes.  Those are the people who give the most!  When I was running for Congress back in 1992 — for the first time — I was running to represent the second poorest district in Georgia… and, what I learned was that the poor people gave the most!  The people who had… didn’t give as generously as the people who didn’t have!  So… my first campaign theme was, “Warriors don’t wear medals, they wear scars!”  So… my heroes are the community and neighborhood warriors who have a whole lot of scars, a whole lot of dignity.

CM: You asked me who are my heroes. … One of my heroes is Glen Ford, who writes for The Black Agenda Report.  I view him as the most astute political observer of our times.

There’s a whole lot of pundits who are in our faces every Sunday morning who think they are political observers…, but they are not astute!  And they’re also not independent.  Glen Ford is independent, he’s been through the wars and he has no special interests to kowtow to. … He just wrote a piece… “Can the Proud African-American Progressive Legacy Survive Another Four Years of Cowing to the Corporate Servant in the White House?”  That’s strong stuff…, but right on point!

We have a situation now… it was the Black struggle that really defined morality in the United States.  It defined the moral imperative.  And the character of the country was measured by how well it answered the call of Black people for justice.  But what happens when Black people stop asking for justice?  

I think you get exactly what we’ve got now—a President who is dropping bombs on Africa… which is un-thought-of; I mean, it would have been un-thought-of four years ago that Africa would be bombed—routinely!  But it’s a routine matter now that the United States Africa Command (AFRICOM) would actively establish itself and militarize the US relationship with Africa.  AFRICOM represents a kind of US imperial occupation of the continent that we haven’t seen since the days of outright colonialism of the Europeans.  We are being told about issues that are “important”…, but we’re ignoring the real issues that are important!  Henry Kissinger said that he couldn’t believe the amount of good will that was embodied in this president!  But… what people like Kissinger don’t “get” is that this president sits on top of the historic Black struggle that characterized the United States to the world!  People around the world thought that Barack Obama characterized the New United States!  But… far from it!  A lot of people got tricked and fooled and now… as philosopher Michel Foucault has observed—the every-day actions of ordinary people actually entrap them in “powerlessness”. … So, to break out of your powerlessness, you’ve got to break out of your existing paradigm.  So, as long as Barack Obama is representative of the existing paradigm, this is what we’re going to get… because the existing paradigm is war and more war!

CM: The literature suggests that people have to be confronted with a “disorienting dilemma” that causes them to reflect on what they’ve just experienced. …

CM: That’s right. … Reflect on what you always assumed… and what you’ve been confronted with that contradicts your assumptions. … For some people, it was the murder of JFK; for others, it was the murder of Malcom; for others, it was the murder of MLK; for a whole bunch of others, it was the murder of RFK; and for some people who began to look and pay attention like me… it was the murder of all of them and then add onto it the murder of the members of the Black Panther Party—who were attacked by our own government….

You could say that, for me, my first “disorienting dilemma” was when I realized that I was black.  I realized that the world around me was not like me, and that it didn’t value my black skin!  That, for me was when I began to pay attention and wake up!

CM: Seven or eight. …You know… for some people it’s religion, it’s race, it’s gender, it’s, maybe, sexual orientation. … Everyone has their moment of reckoning.

I think, ultimately… it’s about the love we have for humanity and how we see something is wrong and we have to stop it! 

So… by the time I got to Congress… I had had my “reckoning,” and I had had my “break-out” moments, and I guess this gave me strength and vibrancy… and there were people who didn’t like it.  I wore my hair differently, I dressed differently from the other people in Congress.  There was even a segment of the Capitol Hill police that didn’t like that….

CM: 1993. …

CM: No, no, no. … It happened for twelve years! … Twelve years of harassment from the Capitol Hill police!  They considered it a “sport” to harass me! … It’s available on the Internet… if you go to YouTube and you put in “The Last Plantation.”

CM: The officer had no business putting his hands on me! … And I reacted like any normal person would react when being attacked by some great big, huge guy from behind! … This was a “hit.”  It was a “hit”—a “sport”–for the white officers.  You’ll see if you go to that “Last Plantation” site that I had been targeted because I had written a letter of support for the Black Capitol Hill police officers.

CM:  That’s right. … The Mainstream Media didn’t want to lead with that indictment, did they?  It was much more sensational and distracting to lead with the story of a black Congresswoman attacking a Capitol Hill police officer!

CM: Everybody can be brave… they just need that break-out moment of recognition. … I’ve stood on some big shoulders. … As I said before—my campaign theme: “Warriors don’t wear medals… they wear scars.”